Webmaster started this discussion ·
Here is two videos that comprise the majority of the pole dance discussion on Anderson Cooper yesterday. We'd love to know what you think, how you would have approached this and if there is anything that should be added to the conversation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vCDTHt8ejM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2jKjldNmwc&feature=channel&list=UL
Sign in or create a free account to reply.
It's a pity that pole dancing carries such a stigma. I do hope things like this will help champion a better attitude towards pole dancing in general. Like someone in the audience was saying, you can sexualize anything if one really wanted to try. Gymnastics the girls are doing the same things we are, just they're on a horizontal beam, but of course that's OK. /sigh
Just watched them both. Must say those ladies kicked ass!!!!! They were great, they had an answer for everything, every objection they have a justification for. As it should be. They kept their cool and made their points. Some people will always be threatened by anything having to do with sexy so of course the pole will make them cringe. That's their problem. For those of us who've been saved we'll keep on poling and to answer AC's question about where's it gonna go when they are 15, um, have you seen the insanity that is some of these back bend-y contortionist people on the pole? Yeah, there'll be even more moves to learn and master in 10 years. Can't wait. Keep poling 😀
I don't think it was explained well, and that creates interesting tv for daytime viewers, right? If they explained that they provide pole dancing/fitness classes for women who are looking for an alternative fitness/dance class and have one for kids that is strictly for fitness/dance (no exotic dancing) it may have gone differently. There are people who hear "pole dance class" and think it is for women who want to strip...they don't know. They were lead to believe the kids were taking "stripper classes." Bottom line--if someone has a problem with a kids dance class THEY are the ones with a problem. It would have made more sense to compare pole to ballet and other forms of dance, instead of team sports. This show feels more like 2 steps back just based on the misinformation. I have had several birthday parties in my home that were basically pole parties by the end cause the kids were just all over it and having fun. Watching this video made me nervous of what another parents might think and maybe I was stupid to let that go on. I wonder if any home polers with kids have ever been reported? 😕 *feeling paranoid*
Aren't these kids really doing pole "fitness"? Are they really "dancing"? I know I always refer to pole as pole " fitness", the "dancing" seems to be word people get worked up about.
Just wanted to also mention that where I live there are two circus schools with kids classes and they teach Chinese pole there, as well as trapeze, silks, etc. It would have been interesting to have heard that angle as those cirque type classes are crazy popular.
As my sister Sublime said......... we use a pole for our exercise apparatus, so we are therefore a stripper? So, shall we call male gymnists cowboys, since they use a horse (pommel)?
Wow, I can't believe how people are so adamantly against this! I'm all for it for kids as long as they are focusing on the fitness aspect. I did not see the whole show, just the clips. I felt that the owner and other guests could have defended and explained pole fitness better, with better examples of why it is no different than other sports. The lady in the audience even gave a better analogy. There really could have been stronger responses for all his questions.
I think what immediately rubs me the wrong way with this is that Anderson right away hits on a couple of pet peeves of mine. First, he mentions that children's fitness pursuits should be leading to sports teams (or they arent really valid, at least, that was the implication I was left with, though I tend to be really sensitive on this issue). I used to coach high school volleyball, and when I saw what parents would force their kids into for a 'scholarship' when the kid didn't have the heart or real talent to play in ANY college, let alone Division 3, it was upsetting, for everyone involved. Not everybody needs to be forced into that mindset. Team sports are not the only way to be fit and active, have discipline, work hard, and succeed. Second, that at 15 years old, a child will have mastered the basics of pole dancing and all advancement past that occurs only in a strip club. I think both sentiments are incredibly closeminded. In all other forms of dance (ballet, modern, ballroom, hip hop, etc, etc, etc), in yoga, in gymnastics, in circus arts, in capoeira, in martial arts, there is no ceiling to what can be achieved; no dead ends in the art itself. I could go on and on.
I have two girls, 12 and 6, and they have free access to my pole. I wholeheartedly agree w/ Goldie and w/ Lyme, that it's a branding issue (b/c of negative mental associations)....pole dance=strip club (to a lot of ppl), whereas pole fitness=???, they just don't know, and this is where we, as pole dancers, can create a positive mental association with the word. When I tell someone I pole dance I know where their mind usually goes, until I show them some vid's on youtube or SV, then it opens up a whole nother area they never knew existed (holy sh*t, that's gymnastics!!!). Pole will always have a dual connotation, but my goal is to remove the solely negative association that a lot of ppl have. It's becoming more and more accepted, with all the pole studios going up etc. etc....a lot of people frowned on the Beatles initially too, and Christopher Columbus was told he'd fall off the edge of the flat Earth...but look how that turned out :) Rock on fellow polers!!!
One thing that bothers me is that it is taboo to express one's sexuality. If I had a teenage daughter, I'd much rather her express her sexuality dancing sexily around a pole in the basement or in a dance studio rather than with teenage boys. I don't like the idea of taking all the erotic out of pole. Bringing the topic back to childern, little kids aren't goint to be expressing a sexuality they do not have, therefore, they are going to see it as monkey tricks not sex. If they don't understand sexuality, they cannot express it. Once they start to develop a sexual side, that will come out in their dance as well as other areas of life. I'd rather them develop it in a healthy and safe way. This also extends to grown women. It is nice to have a safe place to express this side of ourselves especially since our culture is so utterly against women that express their sexuality. I think it is the culture that needs changing, not pole dancing, erotic or not.
One thing that bothers me is that it is taboo to express one's sexuality. If I had a teenage daughter, I'd much rather her express her sexuality dancing sexily around a pole in the basement or in a dance studio rather than with teenage boys. I don't like the idea of taking all the erotic out of pole. Bringing the topic back to childern, little kids aren't goint to be expressing a sexuality they do not have, therefore, they are going to see it as monkey tricks not sex. If they don't understand sexuality, they cannot express it. Once they start to develop a sexual side, that will come out in their dance as well as other areas of life. I'd rather them develop it in a healthy and safe way. This also extends to grown women. It is nice to have a safe place to express this side of ourselves especially since our culture is so utterly against women that express their sexuality. I think it is the culture that needs changing, not pole dancing, erotic or not.
^ Yep, suppressing female sexuality is a worldwide issue. But not mine, I get one life...and I'm going to live it for ME!💪
I get sick and tired of people's ignorance, I'm at the point where frankly I could not care about others opinions because that's all it is an opinion not fact, you only get one life do what you want that makes you happy and fit at the same time and if a child taking a pole dance class leads them to be a stripper then so be it they were probably going to head that way anyway! With or without the pole!
I agree with you CorbyOconnor, Mr. Cooper's comments all fell flat for me. Why is it only acceptable for kids to participate in an activity if it will get them a scholarship or to the olympics? I think it's much more healthy and useful as far as life skills go, to teach a kid to be active and healthy for the sheer enjoyment they get out of it. I agree that there is a branding issue though. My kids play on my pole, and I have no problem with that. I don't think I'd sign them up for classes though, or push them to be competitors. It's hard enough to pioneer the evolution of pole as an adult, I wouldn't want them to have to deal with that as kids. And I don't expect everyone to "get" that there is a difference between cirque style aerial pole and sensual/sexual pole dance. Not everyone has *seen* the difference, and that's really what it takes to understand. Even with pole getting exposure on TV talent shows and dance shows, not everyone has encountered pole in any form other than sexy strip-club form. Circus arts studios would probably catch much less flack for teaching children's pole classes than an adult pole dance studio would. As adults, we love the sexy side of pole, and studios want to capitalize on that and advertise that they offer that, but I think it's a poor choice as far as business image goes to advertise the sexy/sensual adult pole classes and then also offer children's classes.
The studio I visit in the Bay Area just sent me an e-mail about aerial silks for kids. I bet you $100 that no one in the media would ever cover it because it's SILKS. So even though aysha stag and double stag in silks are EXACTLY THE SAME POSITION and you can do gemini on silks (not sure of the term) and gemini on pole, but because there's a pole it's not art, it's sexual. I just don't understand people who hate pole and think it's sleezy, but then casualy sit there and smile at a cirque de soleil show. SMH.
I think it's more than unfortunate that the media in this country have such a vulgar misunderstanding of their profession. They feel their obligation is not to report facts but, rather, to stir emotions. If there's no controversy, there's no show. No show, no advertisers. No advertisers, no money. Unfortunately, we, the viewing public, must share the blame. We eat this crap up, let it upset us, and demand nothing of substance from television producers, reporters, and advertisers. Shame on them. Shame on us. Can't blame Anderson Cooper for trying to make a buck. It's obvious he's reporting on a topic he hasn't researched. He's just the pretty face reading the teleprompter. If I made my money as a daytime television producer, I'd dig up all the controversy I could to keep my job, and I wouldn't worry too much about research or facts, because my viewers aren't interested in facts. Choose any topic: everyone holds and maintains their own opinion, regardless of the facts. They just tune in to watch pretty people argue. The ladies did a good job answering the questions posed by Anderson Cooper. Unfortunately, the only people who understood their answers, were those who already agreed with them. To my fellow Veeners, please don't be upset by pole controversies. It's a waste of energy. Energy that you should spend on acts of love and kindness. Go dance with your kids instead. And, remember, if love guides your child-rearing decisions, those decisions will always be right. No matter what Goldie Hawn says.
"I get that it could be good exercise and stuff..." Yeah... clearly Anderson doesn't get it.
Thumbs up to the ladies who are safely teaching our sport to the next generation of polers! In my experience the media are only interested in selling stories and controversy not facts. I have been teaching children gymnastics for over 20 years. A couple of years ago the studio I was teaching at asked me to pilot a childrens pole play class. My team of wonderful children opened a local (Wellington) pole competition. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2cTq4O3z8s. ; I was so proud of them! An Auckland newspaper got wind of it and published this article http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10654748 ; I was never contacted about the performance or what I was trying to achieve. The reporter was only interested in selling newspapers not truth. This article did however have a bright side - the demand for my classes grew and we needed to offer more childrens classes...
I hate how combative the media, the system, or whatever we want to call it has us with ourselves. I stop and think to myself all the time, "Why can't I just like something?" without it having to be such a big deal. I allow my nieces and nephew to play around with the pole. They truly have a great time because they are super competitive and will try their best at whatever they can come up with. I feel and think that it's great that they offer a childrens class considering that a few years ago we were told that u.s. citizens were overweight (gasps.). So more fitness alternatives at early ages would be a good thing right? If you ask me some of the hand raisers on the first question anderson asked to the audience @ 3:30ish bandwagoned their responses. I say this because honestly I have bandwagoned a response to something before and it left me feeling terrible about myself afterwards, but in that moment i just didn't want to be that odd man out. In time I have learned that being the odd man out is not so bad after all. It's hard but little by little I am breaking away from that projected line of thinking so I can do the opposite of what HotelChick said and not eat this crap up anymore.
I note the article link is not working so here is the article itself... Kids' pole antics just 'a sport' By Kieran Nash 4:00 AM Sunday Jun 27, 2010 Family values campaigners are concerned about a pole-dancing competition that opened with a display by young children. The Central Poledance Championships held in Wellington last night featured a performance by five children, aged between 8 and 13. Organiser Sarah Metcalfe said the event focused on exercise and sport and there was no sleazy element. Spectators were encouraged to bring their children along, she said "There's no reason why it can't be a family event." She said competitors weren't allowed to touch themselves or remove any clothing and had to wear items that covered sensitive areas. G-strings and see-through clothing were banned. "It's a sport for all ages," said Metcalfe. The display was by members of the Kiwi Pole Kids group, part of Kiwi Pole Fitness, formerly Sensual Movements. Owner Sonia Hendry said her children were not taught sensual dance. "We do not teach them anything inappropriate. It's fitness, it's not pole dancing. "It's not about the striptease side of it. That's completely different. We don't want children looked at it in that light." Family First campaigner Bob McCoskrie said pole dancing had sexual connotations and he had concerns about the children's involvement. "My initial response was if it's based around exercise and sport it's a good thing."If it's around skimpy outfits and sexualised positions then it's dodgy and the last thing we want 8 or 9-year-olds doing." National Council of Women president Elizabeth Bang welcomed the exercise aspect of the activity but said the erotic links were hard to shake.She was concerned about the age of the children involved. "It would be interesting to see what they're wearing."Bang also questioned what sort of people were watching."Hopefully they're watching for the right reasons." Owner of Pole Fitness New Zealand Casey Green, who teaches the activity in Auckland, thought "children should be children"."It's not something I would welcome. I personally wouldn't allow it in my studio."What's wrong with playing on the jungle gym?"If I had children I don't think I would even have them coming to the gym with me," she said.She said pole dancing was about fitness and fun, but children should wait until they were older than 13 before taking it up. Christchurch Women's Refuge chief executive Annette Gillespie said there was growing concern about increasing sexualisation of children."It's very concerning that New Zealand parents are encouraging their children to participate in a traditionally sexual activity in the name of sport," she said.
Many in the pole community may not agree with me on this... but while I don't think there's anything wrong with children pole dancing (there are poles on playgrounds) I don't think it's neccessary to fight for the right for them to do so. Pole doesn't have to always be sexual but it can be very sexual and it does have roots in exotic dance. I think it's difficult for the average person to separate the two. When most people hear about pole dancing they still think about strip clubs. That may take a long time to change and may never change. Pole dancing has gymnastic elements but it is not the same thing as gymnastics... Like I said, I'm not against it, it's just not something I would fight for.
That may be exactly why starting to offer strictly fitness children's pole classes is the best way to combat the stigma traditionally associated with pole. If it is advertised, and eventually accepted as something in the gymnastics field, we will finally prove to everyone that poles aren't just for strippers. You win the parents over, and get a jump start on the next generation at the same time. It's now a family friendly activity where people can appreciate the pure physical strength and artistic expression that goes into the routines.
The battle's been fought with belly dance too. When I first started dancing 12 years ago, it had a 'dirtier' reputation. Seems more mainstream now, although I still don't see it offered as a kids dance class. But it is more public... here anyway. Honestly I think costuming makes a huge difference. Especially with pole.
Educate yourself, then make up your own mind. Every one has a right to their oppinion but know what you are talking about before you criticize.
This makes me so angry. I hate how judgemental people are. Its like omg just because you pole dance doesnt mean your going to be a stripper. Its the influence that they are put under. If a kid is told its excercise and thats it they will see it just as that. For gods sake people need to be more open minded and learn poles arent for strip clubs anymore. Honestly sad fact is ther will always be debate because people are to scared to try it. I know most if they tried it would not have the same view. its so frustrating its people like that I just want to shake and say you are so blind to life. Welcome to the future. Like was said the world is changing and evolving and if you dont get with it you will be left behind.Ill let my daughter excercise on the pole and teach her that its an art. Because if you think about it it truly is. It teaches you to be graceful but at same time strengthen your body and stay fit.
